I recently purchased an M1 carbine manufactured by Quality Hardware that has a bayonet lug. Only Irwin-Pedersen & Saginaw SG receivers were produced with a tooling hole (page 22 of Craig Rieschs book, U.S. M1 Carbines Wartime Production 7th Edition). Markings:There is no visible import mark. The varnish is a little thin around the sling cutout. Location: The People's Glorious Republik of Southern Kalifornistan. Irwin-Pederson M1 Carbines are RARE. Model:M1 Carbine. Saginaw = SG; Saginaw (Grand Rapids) = SG Standard Products = S; Irwin-Pedersen = IP; IBM = B; Rock Ola = R; National Postal Meter = N; Quality Hardware = Q; Underwood = U; Therefore, for example, a carbine made by Rock Ola would be Such carbines may be fine collector items, but are not as desirable or valuable as original, unrestored carbines. subcontractors, suppliers, members of the military or government, and others to show appreciation for their assistance and cooperation Ser. Yes this is correct 100% stock even with rebuild mark is about 2-300, https://app.photobucket.com/u/SupraR0-39ecec2fbcbc. The same caveat basically holds true for the rotary safety. I acquired a Saginaw M1 carbine from a family member this morning. Ths M1 Carbine has since been refinished. Model: M1 Carbine. The resulting grooves could serve as a precision mounting for something, night-sight or other. The rifling is sharp. Because of it's size and weight the M1 carbine became fairly popular with many GI's. The trigger group is marked SG on the right rear which was used by Saginaw SG and Irwin-Pedersen (page 78). All Rights Reserved. Shortages were common Which Saginaw? Such markings can be sanded off by someone wishing to remove such evidence so any sanded areas make the stock suspect. Sapwood is pale yellow-gray to nearly white. customers to the absolute best of our abilities. There is minor wear concentrated around the high edges of the receiver. Occasionally, an L type sight might cover most of the circular punch marks so close examination should be performed to ascertain whether these exist. Manufacture date shows 9-43 with barrel date 9-43. What does a 10,000 dollar insulator look like? Ser. The key parts to observe are the rear sight, bolt, stock, safety and barrel band. During WWII the only stocks made with Birch were made by Sprague & Carleton Co. of Keene, NH for IBM (SC-B). Most of our products are unique. Older Post There are four basic types of markings which may or may not be found on the U.S. Carbine stocks. CARBINE / CAL. authorization to sent an unknown quantity of receivers to Grand Rapids. Irwin-Pedersen Numbers Reassigned to Saginaw at Grand Rapids. What caught my eyes right at the start when I purchased the little rifle was the unusual rear sight. be complicated. Heck I should take some photos later. Make:Irwin-Pedersen. Through our YouTube channel, we strive to educate and share the stories behind the artifacts we sell. http://www.chestnutridge.com/images/inv/CPBP2.asp. .30 M1. and the top rear is marked SAGINAW S G / 1872994. There is light erosion at the muzzle. If a receiver has its original barrel and the However, the majority of carbines made in WWII had the non-adjustable L type rear sights. During the production of their type III stocks in 1945 Winchester changed Underwood supplied barrels for Irwin-Pedersen (page 50). ): B [circled] (I've seen some cases of 100 that were marked Winchester, but packed with these "B" magazines-- could they be a subcontract from Bridgeport?) Click Here to view our Gunbroker page! There is no bayonet lug. Sights / Optics:The front sight is a bladed post set between 2 protective wings. Many of the marks have damaged small portions of the surface wood. These marks have been oiled. This is not to imply thatonlythese parts are important as every component should be closely scrutinized. The above hints are no substitute for a thorough examination of a carbine by someone knowledgeable on the subject. The gun comes with one period-correct magazine. By signing up you agree to Guns.com's Make:Saginaw SG. A plain SG with no other markings is also stamped on the front left of the receiver. Given the high volume of production, receivers were generally assembled as part of a carbine within a few months after the receiver was serial numbered. While there is no substitute for experience when examining a carbine, there are several things to look for that can give valuable clues as to the originality (or lack thereof) of a particular carbine. It is in about Very Good Plus overall condition. Serial number blocks were assigned by the Ordnance Department on an as needed basis, generally in response to the awarding of a contract to a given manufacturer. It is in about Very Good Plus to Fine condition. The rear sight is at the front end of the receiver; it is a one inch wide notched blade reminiscent of a revolver's rear sight. It should be remembered, however, that the arsenal rebuild procedures did not always include reparkerizing the metal. The hammer is marked IP which is a Irwin-Pedersen mark (page 89). Inland later decided to present carbines as gifts to Inland employees, http://m1family.com/general-history-rbine-t33.html, http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/serialnumbers.html. These receivers were purchased by Winchester. There has to be either a period or apostrophe after each letter of the SG on the receiver heel. The technical storage or access that is used exclusively for anonymous statistical purposes. Therefore, if a carbine has all metal parts finished in a uniform shade of parkerizing, the weapon is not original, no matter how good it may look. It's the first I've seen. A few of the manufacturers used subcontractors to manufacture their receivers. This Irwin-Pedersen M1 Carbine uses almost all original Irwin-Pedersen parts that were made prior to Saginaw SG taking over. During the course of production of the Type III stock for the M1 Carbine several manufacturers began making changes Therefore, it is very important to examine the rear sight dovetail area very closely even though the correct type of non-adjustable rear sight may be present. Resulting in the change of the design to the type V stock. Yellow Birch heartwood tends to be a light reddish brown, with nearly white sapwood. The barrel has been treated with cold blue. Most of the markings are deep. Commercially manufactured modern day replicas of the dies/stamps used for markings are often used in "restoration". The two most common types of wood used for caliber .30 carbine stocks and handguards were American Black Walnut and Yellow Birch. I've spent the day going over my Inland. marked: JM, Amco, MMQ,J.M.Q. The stock rates in about Very Good Plus overall condition. The sling is marked with a blurred stamping between the buckle & strap. Therefore, if any other carbine has this type of barrel band, it is not all original. Military AAY inspector stamp on left of stock near reciever. We believe we sell living history, and honor the veterans who fought and died for our freedoms. The fact that the vast majority of these weapons were subsequently modified after the war during the extensive post-war overhaul (rebuilding) programs has resulted in unaltered carbines being rather elusive. These marking(s) and their location(s) varied based on needs and/or intent. Four of the prime contractors did not have the ability In the majority of cases, however, the parts should all be marked with the prime contractors code. We offer a 7 day inspection period and hassle free returns to ensure every customer is happy with whatever they buy from us. A few unconverted type III stocks absent the bridge have As with all used firearms, a thorough cleaning may be necessary to meet your maintenance requirements. My S' G' is serial number 1991044 and does not fit within any of the serial number ranges listed. For the best experience on our site, be sure to turn on Javascript in your browser. The M2 Carbine had a selective fire capability i.e. full auto. Neither the M1 Rifle or the M1 Carbine had a selective fire capability. The M2 carbine replaced most of the submachine guns used the US by the time of the Korean War. of the barrel channel from approximately 3 3/16" to 4 1/16" to strengthen the wood in the area of the barrel band. Ordnance facility post WWII and/or after the Korean War, sometimes involving a complete overhaul that stripped the carbine and rebuilt it from different parts. This website intentionally omits the information on which manufacturer used which inspection marks, crossed cannons, their size, and their spatial relationship to one another. There is virtually no color distinction between To strengthen the stock where the bridge had previously been located the wood of the type V Location: Upwind of the Giant Plaster Lemon. What are you basing your question on? CARBINE / CAL. No matter what you hunt, or what type of gun you prefer to hunt with, Guns.com offers options for everyone. Some enterprising fakers have welded up very deep staking punch marks, ground off the excess and refinished the receiver. This is not the case because, as stated, as some contractors utilized these parts in later production pieces during the war. It appears to read S. The smooth push button safety is marked IP-W which was used by Irwin-Pedersen and Saginaw SG (page 95). When the adjustable sights are removed and replaced by the correct vintage L type sight, these punch marks are often apparent and reveal the fact that a later sight was installed at one time. It must not be inferred that if a carbine has a round bolt or an adjustable rear sight, it has been altered. Saginaw Steering Gear Division of General Motors Grand Rapids. The ebb and flow of mass production created parts surpluses and shortages for all the prime contractors, barrels included. My IP is in the first serial block--1776xxx. More data submissions are needed to help determine any patterns. barrel channel (top) We did not fire this rifle. A M1 with high wood is going to bring a high price. requires each be assessed individually to determine its historical significance. Data collected The early Type I stock is a Saginaw SG stock made after SG took over the factory, but it was still made in the samefactory as the previous Type IIrwin-Pedersen stocks. 30 M1.; the top rear is marked SAGINAW S G / 3426991. The trigger group is marked IP on the right rear which is a Irwin-Pedersen mark (page 78). The T4 barrel band (with integral bayonet lug) was only utilized in factory production weapons by Inland and Winchester and did not come into use until very late 1944 or very early 1945. A total of over 6.1 million M1 carbines of various models were manufactured, making it the most produced small arm for the American military during World War II (compared with There was no requirement as to using the serial numbers in order. Caliber .30 Carbine Models M1, M1A1 and M2 (1) leftover carbines offered to Ordnance after a company name change and completion of the NPM contract (2) Toolroom Models: Pre The technical storage or access is strictly necessary for the legitimate purpose of enabling the use of a specific service explicitly requested by the subscriber or user, or for the sole purpose of carrying out the transmission of a communication over an electronic communications network. A very scarce WW2 Saginaw manufacture U.S. M1 Carbine .30 Caliber Semi-Auto rifle. 15 round magazines: Originally packed 100 to a case, with cardboard dividers and separate wrapping papers for each magazine--usually a brown or reddish heavy wax paper. The rear sight is a Type I dual flip up aperture. of 0.5. departments within Inland over the years of production. Saginaw Carbines made in the original Saginaw, Michigan factory are marked S.G. or SG. CARBINE / CAL. A few very late stocks used with the M2 carbine are characterized by a very prominent bulge on the bottom of the forend. That way, were helping small businesses in majority of M1's converted to select fire were not altered, nor were markings added to indicate a conversion. The receiver is marked Saginaw S'G', the barrel shows Underwood 8 43 with the bomb underneath. Simi Valley, CA 93065. two Ordnance rebuild P's. It has seen some use but most of the markings are in great shape. Shopping at Guns.com gives you the backing or may have other markings. We would like to encourage you to share information you may have that will help reconstruct what was actually done versus planned. Some restorers have attempted to file down the sight base to reduce or eliminate the punch marks but this normally requires reparkerizing to hide the work. We've been wringing out the SFAR for several weeks and, with the first 500 rounds in the rearview, decided to go for some quiet time. Get a heads up on all of our Sales, Promotions, and news updates (about 1 email per month). It makes a difference. Dating a carbine by its serial number alone is difficult and not always accurate given the circumstances inherent with manufacturing and the logistics situation Typically these punch marks are rather deep and readily apparent. Also, any indention in the wood at the tip of the stock covered by the barrel band should be examined. On the other hand, as an old-time collector once said, Its not the fakes I spot that bother me, its the ones I dont. Free shipping for many products! Thicker wood along the right side adjacent the slide (bottom). The rifle comes with a green canvas sling. Yellow Birch is more dense than Black Walnut and therefore slightly harder and heavier. Receiver or barrel or? With, Guns.com offers options for everyone over my Inland if a carbine by someone knowledgeable the... Two Ordnance rebuild P 's and news updates ( about 1 email per month ) and updates. 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